Speaker A [00:00:00]:
Hi, everyone. So today I have a very special guest. My friend and colleague, Marissa. Kai Milik is a registered dietitian and she specializes in binge eating disorder. So today, Marissa, welcome.
Speaker B [00:00:15]:
Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to chat about this. I’m also really excited that we got to reconnect over here.
Speaker A [00:00:22]:
Yes. So Marissa and I go way back and she is a dietitian who’s also on Instagram. Do you want to share your handle, Marissa?
Speaker B [00:00:29]:
Yes, I’m on Instagram at binge nutrition.
Speaker A [00:00:32]:
Yes. So Marissa and I today are going to be talking about emotional eating, Binge eating. I think, Marissa, so many people, when they hear the word binge eating, they falsely think of, like, an eating disorder. They falsely think of bulimia. They are not thinking about what binge eating actually is. So today we’re going to get into it. It’s so much more common than people think. And there are some really kind of insightful things that I know that you’re going to share with us today.
Speaker A [00:01:02]:
So let’s get started. Welcome to the Paralysis Nutrition Podcast, where changing your eating habits is the key to losing weight, improving bowel health, and feeling your best. I’m your host, Fatima Fakouri. I’m a registered dietitian who’s married to a quadriplegic and specializes in nutrition for paralysis. Get ready to be inspired, educated, and motivated so you can take control of your health using the power of food. Let’s get started. This is the Paralysis Nutrition podcast. So first, Marissa, thank you again for coming on.
Speaker A [00:01:34]:
Because this is such a common occurrence with people who are in my group program or just people that I talk to in my corner of the Internet where people are engaging in overeating, emotional eating, binge eating. And I think they sort of just think, this is how I am.
Speaker B [00:01:58]:
Totally.
Speaker A [00:01:59]:
This is just, I’m, you know, people always label themselves. I’m a snacker, I’m not a breakfast person. I’m a this, I’m a that. And I think it’s really harmful.
Speaker B [00:02:10]:
Totally. It rids it with judgment. And judgment removes us from being able to be curious and think about, okay, maybe it’s not helpful. Maybe something else will be more helpful for how I do want to feel overall. And so, yeah, any sort of labeling like that, I think even if we mean it in sort of like, ahaha, I’m like a snacker, or, you know, I just, I’m a binger. I love to overeat. That can just sort of be that, like, self deprecating. Humor or label that the judgment can fuel those behaviors in and of itself.
Speaker B [00:02:41]:
So I agree it is a problem to not look at it as, okay, maybe this is something that has a reason for occurring, and it’s not a problem with my own willpower or sense of discipline.
Speaker A [00:02:54]:
Absolutely. And I love how you are talking about discipline because I always tell people, you don’t actually need discipline to eat healthy. You have to eat things that you like. Right. And you have to listen to your body. And so Marissa and I, we agree on many things.
Speaker B [00:03:14]:
Right.
Speaker A [00:03:15]:
And I think that we both agree that people are really confused about why they overeat. So I already know what you’re going to say, but I want you, Marissa the binge expert, to tell our listeners today what are the big reasons why we overeat? Why do we do this, and why do we keep doing it?
Speaker B [00:03:38]:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, like I said, it’s not just a simple willpower thing. It’s usually something that comes from a need not being met. And so that need can be a physical need or an emotional need. Now, before I even talk about that, but I will say overeating to some extent sometimes is not some big flaw, is not some big eating disorder. It’s human nature. Sometimes we get dessert and we enjoy it. It’s Thanksgiving, whatever the event is.
Speaker B [00:04:05]:
And it’s like, that can be okay and not something for us to get, you know, really worked up over. We’re human. We enjoy food. It can be just that. It doesn’t have to be too complicated. However, when it starts to become an issue where we find ourselves frequently overeating or even binging, which we can talk about sort of the difference there in a minute, then, you know, that’s where I say, all right, there’s likely a need that’s not being met. And we want to look into what could be contributing to those. Those episodes.
Speaker B [00:04:33]:
And where we may be finding ourselves, reaching for food. So physically, those needs that might not be met are nutritional needs. Right. If we’re just simply not eating enough calories, not eating enough carbs, not eating enough anything, then we can find ourselves, our bodies, just experiencing that extreme hunger. And therefore, we are. Next thing you know, we’re arm deep, like in the pantry, like, can’t reach the back because we’ve eaten through it.
Speaker A [00:04:59]:
Yeah.
Speaker B [00:05:00]:
And so it’s one of those things where it is. I was going to say it’s like diet culture. Right? Diet culture. It’s so common because it’s that. That misconception that in order to live A healthful life, you have to eat less. And sometimes less causes you to eat more. And you have to find the balance of eating enough to satisfy your body’s needs and also satisfy your mind. And that’s where we get sort of more into that mental side of things, of if we’re restricting ourselves from foods that we enjoy simply because of a rule, a hard black and white rule.
Speaker B [00:05:34]:
Let me just say, nothing in health is black and white. We cannot say, this is bad, this is good, and if you never eat the bad things, then you’re going to be healthy. That’s just not. Not possible. And we also have to weigh in mental health. And if I never were to eat a chip again in my life, I probably wouldn’t have very good mental health. Exactly.
Speaker A [00:05:52]:
And so this is so valuable, Marissa, because I think people don’t realize that a major reason why they overeat at night. I mean, it’s almost always at night. Right. A major reason why. And I see this time and time and time again in my group program, people don’t eat during the day. My goodness. I got breakfast Skippers. I got lunch Skippers.
Speaker A [00:06:16]:
I have coffee drinkers that are drinking coffee instead of eating and then just eating that one big meal at night. Okay? So it’s like nothing all day, a big meal because you’re really hungry, and then two hours later reaching for literally anything and everything in your pantry, in your fridge. And so Marissa does not promote weight loss at all. And I just want to be really clear about that. So I do. Right. And so for Paralysis Nutrition program, what’s so fascinating to me is that when you don’t eat all day and then you overeat or in some cases, binge eat at night, you actually sometimes end up eating way more calories than you would if you had just eaten breakfast, lunch, dinner, and a snack. And you would feel so much better.
Speaker A [00:07:08]:
Right. And I think that’s what gets into that emotional aspect. Right. As well. So when we don’t eat during the day, we’re physically hungry, and our body is calling for carbs, is calling for sugar, is calling for, you know, anything that’s easy.
Speaker B [00:07:27]:
And I want to. I was just going to say. I want to say how that hunger doesn’t always have to come from our stomach. If our brain is saying, eat, eat, eat, that is a sign of hunger, and we have to.
Speaker A [00:07:39]:
Because we didn’t eat all day.
Speaker B [00:07:40]:
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker A [00:07:42]:
So sometimes it’s funny, because I. I have a client who last week said, who would have known eating would help me like, feel better because I thought that I shouldn’t eat during the day and I should. You know, in his case, it was weight loss. But in many cases it’s not about weight loss. People just think it’s healthier to always eat less. And I think in terms of, you know, my clients, they want to maintain their, their muscle mass. You cannot do that on one meal a day. Right.
Speaker A [00:08:16]:
They want to regulate. They. All my people are constipated. You are going to be even worse constipated, you are going to be even more bloated when you only eat once a day. Right. So going into that kind of psychological thing now, you and I have discussed this about me personally, right? We are always chatting about ourselves, right?
Speaker B [00:08:38]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:08:39]:
I have a thing with potato chips. I cannot, Marissa, stop eating them. And so I made the decision last year. Now you’re going to be a little disappointed in me because I gave up. I gave up, Marissa. Oh, boy, I did. I gave up. So I want you to talk me through it now.
Speaker A [00:08:56]:
It’s the only thing that I binge eat. It’s the only thing. I’m talking about the big bag of potato chips, eating half of it, right? And this doesn’t happen at 1:00pm this doesn’t happen at 3:00pm this happens at 9.
Speaker B [00:09:09]:
Of course, that’s when it always happens. You know, it’s that evening.
Speaker A [00:09:14]:
And I’ll tell you very honestly, I am a dietitian. I should know better. And I can’t portion control it. But what I did take to heart is what you said is, are you eating three meals a day in a snack? And I kind of connected the dots and realized it was always, always when I skipped breakfast.
Speaker B [00:09:34]:
Every single time, every single time.
Speaker A [00:09:37]:
Because breakfast to me is tough. You know, I have the kids and it’s always just like they always eat breakfast, right? Which is interesting, but sometimes, you know, I won’t eat it and I find myself getting into the chips and things like that. Now, I did Marissa abandon chip and stop buying them. And I know that you would say that is not the way to go about it. So please share, because I think in that you mentioned, like that diet culture kind of mentality, it’s like, don’t buy it because you’re going to eat it. Now, I sort of struggle with that because me personally, I know that if I don’t have them in the house, I can’t eat them. Right? Of course, when I do buy them, I don’t like the way that I behave around them. I want to be able to take a handful or two and have them with my sandwich.
Speaker A [00:10:26]:
I want to be able to do that. And yet I am not able to do it yet because I am still on a journey. Right. We are all on a journey.
Speaker B [00:10:32]:
Yeah. And that is the thing. We are not perfect. Yes.
Speaker A [00:10:35]:
Can you talk about that? This permission, getting out of this mentality. I am always telling my clients, we are not on a diet. We are eating for adequacy. We want to get enough of our fruits and veggies. We want to get enough water. We want to get enough protein. And I think that when we don’t have enough, we just reach for whatever. Right, Exactly.
Speaker B [00:10:57]:
Tell us.
Speaker A [00:10:58]:
Tell us about your approach when it comes to. Let’s use the potato chip example. Yeah. So, like, if you were to work with me on healing my relationship with potato chips. This is serious business. I. What is a life with no potato chips? It sucks, right?
Speaker B [00:11:14]:
It’s. It’s sad. Yeah. So a lot of times, you know, just as you assumed, I talk about introducing unconditional permission to eat it. And now right off the bat, if you’ve had a relationship with potato chips where it’s not very trusting, then it’s very common that. Exactly. It’s very common that when you do bring it into the house, it’s that uncontrollable behavior of just, I have to eat it because your brain still thinks it’s now or never. You know, you don’t let me.
Speaker B [00:11:44]:
If I was the body speaking, you don’t let me have this ever. And I want it. And so now that I have access to it, I’m going to get it because I know it’s going to be gone again. And so I talk a lot about that unconditional permission to eat these foods. And there’s a huge misconception that means that I’ll just eat them every time I want the taste of it as much as I want to satisfy me impulsively and whenever I want at any moment of all day. And while that may be true, as we’re healing the relationship, when we get to a place where we are breaking free from the food rule, there’s less judgment around it. Then we can go into more. So honoring our body and listening to our body, which is not just simply hunger fullness, it also incorporates so many different factors, like health values, but also like wants and desires and enjoyment.
Speaker B [00:12:35]:
So it’s just really finding that natural balance when we can trust our body to say, okay, in this moment, I’m going to honor my enjoyment of potato chips with my sandwich today, knowing that it’s not going anywhere and I can have more tomorrow if I want it. But then maybe tomorrow you say, you know, I’ve had potato chips, you know, the past few days, and in this moment, I’m really craving honoring my health values, and I’m going to make that choice. So really, when it comes to permission, there is that healing phase, what we call the honeymoon phase, where it is going to feel a bit uncontrollable.
Speaker A [00:13:09]:
But then that phase for too long, like, I would just keep eating them. And I’ll tell you, I share. I think I’ve shared this on a previous episode. So last year, I was pre diabetic, right? So I was trying to watch my carbs and I said, well, let me. Let me try to heal my relationship with, you know, for example, the potato chips. And the reason that I quit, the reason that I said, listen, I can’t buy them every week is because my lab values that you had mentioned had gone, had gotten worse. Right. And so I feel like the long game here would be to stick with it.
Speaker A [00:13:48]:
But I chose at that time because I have so many other things going on.
Speaker B [00:13:52]:
Sure.
Speaker A [00:13:53]:
You know, the writing’s on the wall. I’m giving myself worse blood glucose control, so I got to stop. So I put my potato chip project on hold, but I’m ready to try it again. I have got my levels down to a healthy range. I am no longer pre diabetic, but someone like me who kind of teeters on the edge of poor blood glucose control, what is some advice that you would give? Because I know we are not going to talk about weight loss today because Marissa does not promote weight loss. But when it comes to something like, for example, the potato chips. Right. Or if you like cookies.
Speaker A [00:14:31]:
I’m not a sweets person, but a lot of my clients are. What would you tell them if they wanted to, like you said, have a healthful life. Right. If they want to have, you know, longevity, and if they want to be able to feel happy around food. How can we manage to have these things around without, you know, I don’t want to say dramatically like, sacrifice, but like sacrificing my blood glucose but, like.
Speaker B [00:15:03]:
Honestly, you know, without impacting them in a negative way. Exactly.
Speaker A [00:15:07]:
Yeah. This is why I jumped ship on Operation Potato Chip, because I was like, oh, my God, my blood glucose is no good. And I, I know that it’s not just the potato tip. I know that that’s not helping. For those of us who do have concerns about our values and we want to be as healthy nutritionally as possible. How can we have our cake and eat it too and still be, like you say, create a healthful life.
Speaker B [00:15:39]:
Yeah, absolutely right. Exactly. There are a lot of factors that go into play here, and that’s where it’s so hard to make a one size fits all thing. A couple things. The first thing is that when we’re doing that permission to eat the potato chips, right, we’re not just doing the behavior of eating potato chips. There’s a lot of mindset work that has to happen. Because if we’re still judging ourselves for eating it or should talking ourselves, oh, I shouldn’t have eaten that. I should just have a serving like, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker B [00:16:05]:
That is restrictive mindsets. And just those mindsets in and of itself can cause us to overeat. It’s like if you take away candy from a kid and all of a sudden they’re crying and you’re like, you didn’t. You told me you didn’t like last night. But now that you’re taking it away, they tend to want it more. It is the same thing throughout our entire adult life. And it’s, you know, there’s a lot of studies out there about it as well, of how just that mental restriction, even if we don’t physically restrict in any other way, that can cause us to desire more. So when we do the introduction and bringing permission to the table within the coaching that I do, we can’t do that without saying, all right, well, what narratives, judgment, negative self talk is coming up around that as well.
Speaker B [00:16:45]:
And are we trying to put boundaries within the parameters of what we’ll eat, you know, when we’ll eat those? But on the other hand, if I do have a client who’s like, yeah, I want to bring this permission to the table and build trust with myself, but at the end of the day, I do have no insulin resistance or some sort of condition that my blood sugars are unstable. I always just say, well, let’s talk about what behaviors we can add in with this that will help manage that. So it’s like, let’s think about adding the chips to a full meal that has protein to balance the blood sugar. Let’s talk about adding a short walk after we enjoy some chips in order to help stabilize our blood sugar. So it’s less about that restrictive mindset and more about, okay, we want to honor both the healing of our relationship with food that will therefore contribute to healthier blood sugar levels when we’re not in a binge Restrict cycle and also managing our lab values at the same time. So I just like to pair the two by saying, let’s just think about what else we can add to the equation here that supports your health values.
Speaker A [00:17:47]:
I love that because I always am so careful. You know, even though I do work with people so that they can lose weight, I try so hard to go for adequacy before we take anything away. Like, I don’t want to take away your. And I think, I think some people are really surprised. Like, what is she talking about? Like, I’m here to lose weight so I can push my wheelchair so I can, you know, be as independent as possible. And it is unique, you know, in the paralysis community in that weight loss is not really just about the way you look. It really is part of the independence piece and things like that. And of course, there’s the whole constipation and gut health thing that we talk about.
Speaker A [00:18:35]:
And so when you say adequacy, that’s exactly what I try to promote, is that. I mean, I’ll tell you honestly, almost everyone in my program is not eating enough of like, the protein. Yeah.
Speaker B [00:18:49]:
And like you said, skipping a meal, skipping breakfast, it’s so, it’s so, so, so common in so many different areas of diet culture. Because if we think health equals just eating less, then sure. But if we were to actually list out, well, what are health promoting behaviors, I don’t know how many people would say, you know, starving ourselves. Right. It’s like we would say, oh, eating fruits and vegetables, moving our body in any way that is within our ability. You know, doing fun activities that stimulate.
Speaker A [00:19:22]:
Our mind, all sorts of stress management, stress management. All of these things are so important. And so I love how you. That was so, so helpful personally to me because I’m like, all right, I would like to, you know, have good blood glucose control now that I’m doing better with that. I’m. I am mentally kind of ready, right. To do Operation Potato Chip. And isn’t it funny too, like, now that I’m saying it out loud, like, it’s such a big deal.
Speaker A [00:19:52]:
Like, to me, it’s such a big deal. And so even just speaking about it is like, wow, I actually, I put them on this, like, pedestal right? Where it’s like, those are so fun. You don’t actually really need to eat them. And I want to eat them. So how am I going to do it?
Speaker B [00:20:10]:
Well, isn’t it. Yeah. Isn’t it so, so amazing how powerful our brain is alone? Because you have all the knowledge, as a registered dietitian about nutrition, and you obviously have strong health values and care a lot about those things, yet that is not all that it’s about when it comes to overeating and binge eating. Our mindset. That’s why the foundation of everything I do is mindset. We start there because if we don’t have that mindset set up to give ourselves self compassion and care and curiosity as we navigate this together, then that judgment just acts as sort of like, just, I don’t know, it shades our ability to really see what’s underneath, what might be contributing to us losing control with certain foods.
Speaker A [00:20:56]:
Absolutely. And I think that recently I have had a number of clients who used to eat one meal a day and then feel bloated and also feel guilty because when we eat, it’s normal to eat. It’s healthy. I swear, it is healthy to eat past the point of fullness sometimes. Because it feels like good, right? It feels good.
Speaker B [00:21:18]:
Just like a little check in with. Okay, I’m, you know, I’m able to be fully, fully satisfied. Always. Yes.
Speaker A [00:21:24]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B [00:21:25]:
Mentally, physically.
Speaker A [00:21:27]:
Yes, exactly. But I feel like when you skip meals all day and then you overeat to the point of you don’t feel well and then you start feeling guilty that you overate. This is just a cycle, Right. And so the next morning you’re going to wake up and say, I’m not eating because I overdid it last night. But it’s just so interesting because in my program we do track for a short period of time, like just to kind of educate ourselves about like, our behaviors and how much protein we’re getting and things like that. I don’t want anyone to track forever, you know, And I just want to kind of put it out there that most of us are eating the way, way, way more than a third of our calories in the evening, but we really should be kind of splitting it up. It should be like one third at breakfast, one third at breakfast, at lunch, one third at dinner. Now that’s not that easy to do sometimes, but I think that people are just not in the habit.
Speaker A [00:22:24]:
People are used to just not really eating during the day and they’re not prioritizing eating, which is, you know, for us, we’re dietitians, we prioritize eating.
Speaker B [00:22:34]:
Yeah, but even me, like you said, you know, your potato chip thing, you’re not perfect. I sometimes have to set timers on my phone because of my adhd. I get glued into my work and I’m not tuned into my body. And so I have to have that reminder of, hey, check in with yourself, like get a meal in. And so I definitely prioritize front loading my day, really getting in enough throughout the day because that reason that nighttime can sometimes feel like when the food hits and it’s just really loaded and you’re really hungry is because a, if you haven’t eaten enough during the day, all of a sudden that mental hunger, I mean physical hunger, really hits you all at once. But also you’re tired after a long day, so that emotional capacity is lower. You’re more vulnerable to not being able to navigate any sort of curveball which would be like an extreme craving or such. So it is important to recognize that the front loading of our day, making sure we’re eating that breakfast and lunch is not just important to make sure we eat enough throughout the day, but also so that our mental capacity by the end of the day is able to, I mean, navigate that evening with ease and not sort of get hit with all of that and not be not sure how to navigate it.
Speaker A [00:23:45]:
Absolutely.
Speaker B [00:23:46]:
And if you hear my cat crying in the background, it’s because he’s hungry. So he walked in. I can hear me owing. I’m like, it’s my kiddo, my cat.
Speaker A [00:23:57]:
Well, I hope that the kitty can get some lunch soon. Oh yeah. I just want to ask you for those of us who it’s done, we did it. We ate the whole bag of potato chips. Now what do we do?
Speaker B [00:24:12]:
So the first important thing is to give yourself that self compassion like you would sit with a friend who had just done that. We’re so hard on ourselves and I know sometimes it’s with good intentions to try to be the best that we can be. But like you said, these moments are not all about willpower. They’re not all entirely within our control. So I think it’s good to really sit with that feeling and connect it and just be, allow yourself to be like this. You know, this sucks. I don’t feel great. But at the same time know that you can be curious and compassionate to figure out what would best support you to maybe prevent that from happening again.
Speaker B [00:24:49]:
So I usually say the first thing is just to sit with it, get comfortable and try to pull yourself out of that sort of shame cycle that might be coming up for you, but then to actually physically move on from it. Always get your next meal plan knowing that, okay, my next meal is dinner or my next meal is breakfast and I am going to eat and this is what I’M going to eat. So that way we can remind ourselves that restriction is not going to fix it, but rather fuel another binge eating cycle. So move on by not trying to do any sort of compensation and get. Get in that next meal that’s going to be filling and satisfying physically and also mentally.
Speaker A [00:25:28]:
Exactly. And I think I love that kind of tip of just sitting with it and being like, how does it feel when I engage in this overeating? Because I’ll tell you, a lot of my clients these days, they’re like, oh, I’m going out to a restaurant and I don’t know what to order, or it’s my wife’s birthday, I don’t know. And I’m like, get what you want. And I think they’re so shocked because my thing is, yes, we want to be in our best healthy mental state. We want to be in good physical health, but what about enjoying yourself? Right, Exactly. And I think that when it comes to that special occasion, it is healthy to eat cake. You know, unhealthy. You know what’s real unhealthy is going to a birthday party and saying, I’m on a diet.
Speaker A [00:26:18]:
I’m not going to eat this cake. Like that, to me, is sad. And I think people are surprised in my program when I tell them, like, yes, you should be able to get dessert. Yes, no, you don’t have to split it. But look at what you’re eating. Like, do you have a protein on your plate? You know, it’s that gentle nutrition that you talk about where it’s like, I want to honor my preferences and I also want to enjoy myself, but I don’t want to be so uncomfortable because a little bit of overeating feels nice. I think. I do love it.
Speaker B [00:26:53]:
It does. It gives us that dopamine kick, you know, it really does. It’s stimulation, I know, in the moment until after. And then we’re like, after.
Speaker A [00:27:03]:
And the thing is, for my clients, because they have neurogenic bowel, okay? So when they overeat to the point of, like, not feeling full, their constipation gets worse. And it’s so interesting to me because it’s like, I have this one client that has been with me for, like, six months, and he is doing awesome. But Monday through Friday, his bowels are great. Saturday and Sunday, he tends to overeat, overindulge. And then Monday, it’s like three hours trying to poop, Right? And so my big thing with him is I don’t want you to not socialize. I Don’t want you to not have cocktails. I want you to remember that on Monday mornings, it takes you three hours to go. And honestly, even Tuesday, you are still like that because you didn’t drink enough water, you didn’t have enough meals.
Speaker A [00:27:58]:
You probably skipped one, and then you overdid it. So it’s like, I love how you said, we need to sit with it and kind of reflect, because so many of us just don’t think about. Don’t think about eating.
Speaker B [00:28:12]:
Don’t think about habits.
Speaker A [00:28:13]:
Don’t reflect.
Speaker B [00:28:15]:
Exactly.
Speaker A [00:28:16]:
I think you reflect on the fact that, yes, I enjoyed it. Yes, it was delicious. Yes, I had a good time. Oh, my God, I felt terrible for two days after. You kind of just have to use your logic and say, should I do that again? You know what I mean?
Speaker B [00:28:31]:
Yeah. And that’s where that mindset and working on really, that motivation is more important than just saying, okay, don’t do that again. It’s like, really saying, well, why is that something that we want to focus on or have a behavior change on? Well, it’s because I want to be able to have energy and focus on Monday, Tuesday. I want to be able to use the bathroom with ease and not feel that sort of stress in my body. And that is motivating when we’re sitting there making a choice, not just a simple, oh, well, I have this rule.
Speaker A [00:29:01]:
Yeah, exactly. Like, eating healthy because I told you so makes no sense. But once you say, oh, eating healthy is helping me feel so good, I’m moving around easier. My body just feels good. I feel less bloated, I feel less pressure. I feel just so much more energetic. It’s so surprising to me, I think, even as a dietitian, how quickly people feel better when they eat better. Right.
Speaker A [00:29:29]:
And eating better.
Speaker B [00:29:30]:
Right.
Speaker A [00:29:31]:
Eating better. What does that even mean? You know, that’s that judgment.
Speaker B [00:29:34]:
It can start with enoughness. Right. It can start with adequacy. It has to. Yeah. I mean, any time that I am like, oh, my God, I have this energy slump in the evening, or I’m, like, feeling kind of cranky, and then I eat. I’m like, oh, I was just hungry, and it doesn’t matter what the meal was. I needed enough.
Speaker B [00:29:51]:
I needed adequacy. And then, you know, we can build on that, too. Yeah. Maybe then I could feel better if I had it more balanced. And then maybe if I add a vegetable or protein, et cetera. But if we don’t have adequacy, none of that really matters.
Speaker A [00:30:04]:
Absolutely. And I think that so many of my clients don’t eat enough during the day, and then at nighttime, they’re eating a meal, and then two hours later, they’re snacking on anything and everything. And this is leading to, in some cases, weight gain because it’s too many calories for their activity level, and in every case, bloating and constipation. And so when it comes to these sort of mindset issues, I think the biggest thing that people need to know is you’re supposed to eat three meals a day. And I gotta tell you, it’s unique with my clients because they’re wheelchair users and they fear. They really fear eating too much. And what’s interesting is that when they don’t eat all day, they end up eating more calories in the evening than they would if they had just eaten the three meals. So when you’re working with your clients on setting up these healthier habits, because I’m sure you’ve got meal skippers and you’ve got people engaging who really are struggling with this, how do you help them? Like, in my program, I have meal plans, and I don’t mean for anyone to, like, follow them to a T, but it’s like setting up your day.
Speaker A [00:31:24]:
How do we start these new healthy habits? Like I always say, prep your breakfast in advance so that you don’t have to worry about it. Think about your lunch, you know, before you’re actually hungry, because you will make, you know, balanced choices when you think about it in advance. So that’s just like my kind of 2 cents when it comes to changing behaviors. What’s your advice on that?
Speaker B [00:31:47]:
First and foremost, why? Right. Why do you want to change the behavior if you don’t know why you’re going to do something other than I want to be healthy. Healthy is not. Is not specific. Exactly. And so let’s talk about that, and let’s also talk about any fears that come up, because those fears, as a wheelchair user, so valid. And I think that it’s important to recognize the validity of that and really talk through those scenarios that are coming up that are fearful of being played out and not as a fear tactic, but as a way for us to work through. Okay, well, what about this? Fear is within our control versus out of our control.
Speaker B [00:32:23]:
So we can also have a little bit of peace made with any factors that are out of our control. It’s really that grieving process of there’s not going to be, like we said, health is not black and white. There’s not going to be a fix Fix all diet plan that’s going to keep me away from this fear that I have going on. And so I like to talk about that really bring forth the mindset so that we can create realistic expectations because those unrealistic expectations for ourselves to I am going to do this every single day and I am going to eat super clean. I am going to lose X amount of weight and use the bathroom every day with ease. It is setting us up for failure and that feeling of failure and the emotions that come with us. I never see success as like a black and white, okay. I never had a binge as being successful.
Speaker B [00:33:09]:
Those mindset shifts, those behavior changes, those just lack of like working on that mindset of guilt and shame and bringing forth more curiosity and compassion are all signals of success for within my clients and my program. But when we do start talking about, okay, let’s now that we’ve identified why we want to make certain changes is let’s talk about how that’s when I bring in being practical. You know, I say listen to your body. And that doesn’t just mean in every impulsive instance. It also means listening to your body when it tells you, hey, when I don’t prepare my breakfast every day, I end up starving by lunch and using that as data to make plans. So yeah, planning can totally be part of listening to your body with that mission that why in mind for what you’re doing. So, so planning a breakfast, planning a lunch, planning a dinner, prepping if you have to, getting things that you enjoy that also promote these goals that you have. It’s really about filling it and thinking about the abundance of your options for supporting your goal rather than thinking you have to fit into some sort of little box.
Speaker B [00:34:17]:
So, yeah, I am not against meal plans when it comes to getting ourselves prepared and making sure that we have basically the tools at our fingertips we need to support our best self and our goals. So with my clients and in my group program, that is something that we do talk about. If planning or prepping is going to support you to be more practical in your life, save time and give you the ability to eat enough and foods that are satisfying and meet your needs, then we talk about how to do that, you know, to the best of their ability.
Speaker A [00:34:50]:
Awesome. And when it comes, I know we could talk about diet culture all day. So I try my best. You know, when I first started paralysis nutrition, I said, oh, I just want to, you know, get people to be healthy. And I don’t really want to promote weight loss because not everybody has to Lose weight. And then I realized that for a lot of my clients, you know, they’re not able to fit in their wheelchair. They’re not able to, like, transfer, right? Literally move themselves from their chair to their bed or they’re not able to bathe themselves. And so I was like, oh, okay.
Speaker A [00:35:24]:
So I feel like I can ethically do weight loss because it is helping my clients to be as independent as possible. Now when it comes to, I guess, diets, right, that are out there, I try so hard to brainwash my people into thinking, this is not a diet. We are not on a diet. I’m not telling you what to eat. I’m not telling you what to avoid. I’m trying to educate you that if you would like to go to the bathroom regularly, you’re going to need to eat, like, adequate fiber. You’re going to need to drink enough water. You’re going to need to think before you eat, right? Because it’s just not that easy, right, to get in what we need, especially if we have this kind of goal.
Speaker A [00:36:18]:
So what are your thoughts on getting out of the mentality of the diets, right? Because in my program, I always say, diets tell you what not to eat, right? They tell you to cut. And what I’m trying to tell you is you need adequacy. You need enough food during the day, you need enough protein, you need enough fiber. But people just love a diet, you know, I think people are really. I had somebody tell me the other day, you know, the first two weeks, now, this is somebody who was eating one meal a day, feeling guilty, overeating, being bloated, and now went to eating three meals and a snack. He said, listen, I’ll tell you honestly, for the first two weeks, I was like, this is crazy. I’m eating all day, all day. I want to lose weight.
Speaker A [00:37:07]:
I can’t be eating all day. Guess what? Of course, he lost 4 inches off of his waist and he’s eating all day. So just, I think, so difficult for people because we’re dieticians, we know the difference between healthy eating and a diet. You know, we know that these diets are restrictive and they lead to, you know, all kinds of complications. And so what is your, I guess, advice on getting out of this mentality of less is what I need, and I have to cut out my favorites. What’s your take on that?
Speaker B [00:37:42]:
Yeah, well, I always ask people when we look at their goals together, when we look at what is their. Why it’s okay, what behaviors best support these goals and so if one of those things is, you know, maybe in your case to better transport from wheelchair to bed and you want that strength, I think maybe someone would say, okay, maybe doing some physical therapy. Okay, maybe making sure I’m getting enough, have protein, doing. And it’s like, yes. So let’s talk about behavior changes and how we can add behaviors to support those goals. Whereas diet culture tends to be very black and white about weight loss. Sure, we can talk about weight loss and eating less. And sure, eating less, you will lose weight, but for how long? And will that support your goal? Because what if just having that being your definition of health means that you eat less? Sure, you lose weight, but you also lose muscle, and therefore your goal of transporting better doesn’t actually improve.
Speaker B [00:38:42]:
And it’s not, you know, at the end of the day, something that promoted that goal. And so I love that.
Speaker A [00:38:47]:
Yeah.
Speaker B [00:38:47]:
So we really got to think about behaviors that we can add. And like you said, whereas diet culture would be about removing. So I like to just think about, all right, where has the evidence been within their own lives, if they’ve been a dieter, to say that, okay, dieting in this restriction and strict sort of regimen has supported my goals, and odds are that you can’t find that evidence. So what would it look like? What would it look like to kind of try to just think about the behaviors and which ones are aligned with those goals?
Speaker A [00:39:22]:
I love that, because people just. We’re working on it, right? Marissa, we’re out here, you and I and so many other dietitians, like, we’re out here trying to teach people, educate people, inspire people, motivate people to eat healthy. And healthy sometimes means having a piece of cake. Healthy sometimes means eating candy. You know, And I, as a mom, am always trying to model healthy behaviors for my kids. So if they’re getting ice cream, oh, you better believe I’m getting ice cream. And I have a lot of parents in my program who say that their kids are like saboteurs because, you know, they have all these fun foods and stuff like that. And I’m like, well, I don’t want you to be a parent who doesn’t eat ice cream when the.
Speaker A [00:40:09]:
When the kids do, because that’s not good modeling. Right. And so, yes, diets cut out. Right. A lot of healthy foods. Right. And make you feel, honestly miserable. And I just was laughing because you’re right, the evidence is just not there for diets.
Speaker B [00:40:25]:
Right. We have to remember that health is social health, health is cultural health, health is tradition, health is family. And also health incorporates nutrition and other external health principles. But we, when we’re getting the ice cream with our kids, we’re supporting our social health. That is one of the elements that overall will lead to that healthful life.
Speaker A [00:40:47]:
And our mental health. Because who wants to say no, you know, to something that they love? So, Marissa, thank you so much for being here. I feel like we could talk all day. Oh, yes, tell the people where they can find you on Instagram.
Speaker B [00:41:03]:
Yeah, you can all find me at Binge Nutritionist and in my bio. You can pretty much find links to anywhere else you could find me, like on podcasts.
Speaker A [00:41:10]:
I have behind the Binge podcast, also has a podcast. It’s called behind the Binge. I hope you guys will check it out. Thank you so much, Marissa. I think so many people are going to just feel seen, right and feel heard because so many of us engage in these behaviors, but we’re not really out here talking about it. So thank you so much.
Speaker B [00:41:30]:
Of course, no problem. I hope it was helpful.
Speaker A [00:41:33]:
That’s our episode for today. Thanks for listening. I hope you enjoyed it and that you learned something new. Remember, remember, if you want to lose weight with paralysis, improve your bowel health and feel your best you can. It’s possible. You just have to change your eating habits. If you need inspiration on how to get started, check out the paralysis Nutrition Cookbook 101 recipes to help you lose weight and improve bowel health. The cookbook comes with a bonus 30 day meal plan and is the perfect way to start eating healthier.
Speaker A [00:42:02]:
You can find it online@paralysis nutrition.com Cookbook I’ll talk to you again soon.
