Speaker A [00:00:00]:
Hi, everyone. Today I have Paralysis Nutrition program graduate Tammy on the podcast. Welcome, Tammy, to the Paralysis Nutrition Podcast.
Speaker B [00:00:09]:
Thanks very much for having me.
Speaker A [00:00:11]:
Welcome to the Paralysis Nutrition Podcast, where changing your eating habits is the key to losing weight, improving bowel health, and feeling your best. I’m your host, Fatima Fakouri. I’m a registered dietitian who’s married to a quadriplegic and specializes in nutrition for paralysis. Get ready to be inspired, educated, and motivated so you can take control of your health using the power of food. Let’s get started. This is the Paralysis Nutrition Podcast. So, Tammy, I would love for you to introduce yourself a little bit. You know, you have been injured for quite a number of years.
Speaker B [00:00:49]:
Too many. 38 years.
Speaker A [00:00:53]:
38 years. And you are a quadriplegic.
Speaker B [00:00:56]:
Yes. C5 incomplete quad.
Speaker A [00:00:58]:
Right. And so, Tammy, the number one thing that I think people will be surprised at is that you live completely independently.
Speaker B [00:01:10]:
Completely and totally independently. And I. Well, I guess completely and totally independent since 2013 when I received my first service dog.
Speaker A [00:01:18]:
Oh, that’s right, yes. You have a service dog. I have. I have seen before, yes. On the Zoom call.
Speaker B [00:01:24]:
Yes. She’s a sweetie.
Speaker A [00:01:27]:
So, Tammy, now, you know my husband is also quadriplegic, and he was living independently for, like, 10 years before I met him. And so I think that this is just important, right? It has nothing to do with nutrition. I just want it to be known that there are quadriplegics thriving and living on their own. Because I do get a lot of people, Tammy, who listen to this podcast who are new to their injury. They may be living at home. They may be. I don’t even know. Maybe some people are still in rehab and they’re just wondering what’s next for me, you know, what does my life look like? And so, Tammy, you have been injured for 38 years, you’re quadriplegic, and you live alone.
Speaker A [00:02:08]:
I just want to put that out there.
Speaker B [00:02:09]:
I do. Independently. No help. Except for my dog, and that’s about it. Well, okay, I’m lying. My mom does still come over and help me do a few things, but that stuff that.
Speaker A [00:02:20]:
So does mine, Tammy.
Speaker B [00:02:22]:
Yeah, yeah. Stuff that involves height, you know, which I’m 4 foot. Nothing compared to being used to being 5 foot 11. So, yeah, bless my mother. I just love her to death. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A [00:02:33]:
And I think that I just wanted to kind of put that out there because I know that there are people listening to this podcast that perhaps lived alone and then were injured and are wondering, can I ever do that? Again, so. Yes, you can. So, Tammy, I want to talk to you about bowels. Right. My favorite subject. You know, I just love to talk about poop. Demi. So when you started the program, now you were in the summer program with me.
Speaker A [00:03:04]:
Now, do you mind sharing for 38 years, what was your experience with bowels? Right. And it changes, right, like immediately after injury and then, you know, so talk us through. What has the experience for you personally been like with bowel care?
Speaker B [00:03:22]:
When I first got injured, it was nothing but medication, medication. And you go every other day. I was set for Monday, Wednesday, Fridays, and I got the weekend off. Woohoo. Lucky me. So, so then it. When you get discharged from, from rehab and you go home, you sort of kind of figure out when you get out of rehab what works and what doesn’t work for your. For your bowels.
Speaker B [00:03:49]:
You start to find out what foods, having bowel accidents, unfortunately. So then you have a tendency to stay away from those foods. Like, I remember a lot of the guys that I was in rehab with couldn’t eat pizza. There was something about pizza that they just could not. Their stomachs could not tolerate.
Speaker A [00:04:07]:
So, I mean, I guess it’s high fat, it’s high sodium, it’s high calorie, it’s heavy. And if you. That’s not the first time I’ve heard that pizza doesn’t sit well with someone. But you’re right, you know, everyone’s. Yeah, it’s acidic, so it’s a lot. There’s a lot going on. There’s a lot of layers to a pizza.
Speaker B [00:04:26]:
Yeah. And in rehab too, you know, you’re. You’re told what to eat is just to help bowel health, is eat a salad and eat lots of legumes. That’s all that we were, we were taught. So you get home and you start to figure out things and you go through the process of learning what irritates your stomach and so on. And then it wasn’t, it wasn’t healthy. And I learned through both my mom and myself that if you eat healthy food, fruits and vegetables, and you get your protein in and all those other things, it helps move things along. And then I moved out of the house and got a job.
Speaker B [00:05:03]:
And I have a friend that got injured two years before I got injured, and we kept in touch after my injury and he was a big influence on me on what to do and what not to do. We had a discussion about bowels one day because in rehab that’s what you do. You sit at the dining room table and you talk about bowels.
Speaker A [00:05:22]:
Hey, I mean, that’s what I do.
Speaker B [00:05:23]:
Yeah, it’s the most hilarious thing. What’s the biggest topic of the day? Let’s talk about my bowels. So my, the gentleman that I knew before my injury, he told me he gave up medication a long time after he got discharged. So I was 13 years into my injury when I, when I spoke to him about this, and I just stopped it all. I just gave it all up.
Speaker A [00:05:45]:
And it was, what were you taking, Tammy? What was it? When you say meds, what were you taking?
Speaker B [00:05:49]:
Milk and magnesia pills and cascara tablets. In the hospital, you’re given the microscopes, which is just, oh, it’s horrible.
Speaker A [00:05:59]:
Yucky.
Speaker B [00:05:59]:
So I gave it all up and things started to work a lot better as long as I focused on my diet. But as soon as I went off my, my diet, it was not good. And then with working and being on my own, I was eating a lot of processed foods because I was more concentrated on staying independent and getting to my job and just doing what I had to do to get myself to work. I was spending three hours a day, I’d get up at four to make sure that I got to work in time so that it really puts a toll on your body and you get really tired. So it’s healthy eating. And it’s this program that when I discovered you, it was, it was a godsend because I, I learned, I stopped working in 2009 because my shoulders are shot and 38 years of being independent and having, now having to use a power chair, my bowels were not working very well. I was very low in energy. I was not very happy and I was gaining weight and I was very bloated as well.
Speaker B [00:07:00]:
And I knew about healthy eating. I mean, I’m a 55 year old woman. I’ve learned just a little bit through my, through my life. But I had no idea how protein could affect your body until I started your program. We’re not taught that protein helps your skin. We’re not taught that protein helps you with energy. We’re not taught that things that you share with us. So it was a big learning curve and it was a big eye opening experience to be in your program because I learned an awful lot, which was really good.
Speaker A [00:07:33]:
I appreciate that so much. So, Tammy, you knew about healthy eating, you knew about eating your veggies and you knew like home cooking is better and stuff like that. But what I think that most people don’t know is like macros, right? They don’t know how much protein they. They don’t know how much carbs. And I will say this. You were an undereater.
Speaker B [00:07:55]:
I still am in some ways, yes. And you know why? My back and my shoulders have been giving me, unfortunately, wreaked havoc on me throughout the whole program. But you were wonderful because you taught me what I could do to eat, to get my protein, to get my macros in, which really, really helped. So, because I was having problems sitting in my chair because I pulled chest muscles and back muscles and my. My shoulders were bad. And, you know, cutting up vegetables was hard. It was hard. And I couldn’t always, you know, ask my mom to do it because she has a life as well.
Speaker B [00:08:33]:
And, you know, it was. It was devastating to not be able to fully follow the program. But what little I could do, and with your coaching, it really, really helped. And I’m slowly getting better.
Speaker A [00:08:48]:
I’m so glad.
Speaker B [00:08:50]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:08:50]:
So it’s so glad. And Tammy, I think we had the conversation a couple of times because you were struggling. You were really struggling. Like, I’m in this program. Like, I’m invested. I want to do all the things. And I was like, tammy, you can’t. Like, you can’t.
Speaker A [00:09:04]:
And in a perfect world, everything would just be, you know, you would feel well and you would have access to all of your shopping and everything would be accessible, but sometimes you don’t feel well. And so that is why I think to be in coaching for three months is so much more valuable than just a couple of weeks. Because for a couple of weeks you might feel perfectly fine, but then programs over, you pulled a muscle or your. Whatever, something happened and now you have no idea what to do. Because I think the perception of, like, healthy eating and healthy lifestyles, that it’s a lot of work and it’s sort of true. It’s sort of true. That that’s, that’s one version, right, is that we chop our vegetables and we cook everything and we prep and it’s like a whole thing. But there is another side to that, which is convenience.
Speaker A [00:09:59]:
Right. It has to be doable for it to be sustainable. So you’re going to have days where you don’t feel well. You’re going to have days where you ran to an appointment and you didn’t have time. These are the really juicy moments to learn and to go through coaching. So even though it’s harder, even though you didn’t have the ideal situation, I think you probably learned more. More because you were in a difficult spot, right?
Speaker B [00:10:34]:
Absolutely.
Speaker A [00:10:34]:
So now when you feel better. You can do all of the things, but you also know how to grab a Greek yogurt, you know what to add into it, you know what to put into a smoothie, you know how to read a food label so that you can pick convenient items. Right. And so it’s not always ideal conditions. You know, I get people who are like, well, I’m traveling, or, well, I’m moving, well, I’m this. Well, I’m that it’s not a good time. And, like, that’s. I totally get it.
Speaker A [00:11:03]:
But it’s such a learning experience to go through one of those sort of chaotic times and have support. Like, yeah, why do you need support on a perfect, imperfect conditions? You don’t need support. You need support when it’s like, you know, everything has gone wrong. Oh, my God, I’m not feeling well. I can’t even, you know, push my own chair right now. I’m, you know, all different things are going on, and that’s really, I think, almost a more valuable experience. Right. And so we do the best we can with what we have.
Speaker A [00:11:38]:
So, Tammy, when you joined the program, several months now, how often were you going to the bathroom?
Speaker B [00:11:44]:
Every other day.
Speaker A [00:11:45]:
Every other day.
Speaker B [00:11:46]:
Every other.
Speaker A [00:11:47]:
So about four times a week?
Speaker B [00:11:48]:
Yes.
Speaker A [00:11:49]:
Yes. And you weren’t taking anything?
Speaker B [00:11:51]:
No, nothing. Just my diet. So it was. I would watch what I eat and wasn’t always perfect. And it was sometimes a struggle to go. So you’re sitting there for longer periods of time than you want to be, which wreaks havoc in other ways on your body. When you’re. When you’re sitting there for long periods of time trying to go to the bathroom.
Speaker A [00:12:16]:
What do you mean?
Speaker B [00:12:19]:
But no, physically, like, because you’re constipated, you can. And because of digital stimulation, you can also suffer from fissures and fistulas.
Speaker A [00:12:29]:
Right.
Speaker B [00:12:30]:
Which are cuts inside, and they can be. I have full sensation, so it was extremely painful, and I would sweat because I’m getting dysreflexic. See, here’s the thing. We don’t know if it was dysreflexic or not because of the fact that I had full sensation, but it was very painful because you’re doing something to your body with a cut inside, and you’re introducing into that cut your germs, because it’s bacteria. Right? So we ended up. It took an awfully long time to find out I was working at the time, that I was suffering from these. And I would still go to work. I would be sweating profusely from pain.
Speaker B [00:13:13]:
And it took quite a number of years and I had to beg to get help and all these doctors that I would go to increase your fiber, Increase your fiber, increase your fiber. But they would never tell me how much fiber and it was too much fiber, so then it would cause worse problems.
Speaker A [00:13:30]:
So what were you doing? So when they said, this kind of reminds me, Tammy, of when people have wounds and the doctor tells them to eat more protein, but doesn’t tell them how many grams or what foods could help them get to that high number of grams of protein per day. Um, so you actually did get in for. That’s actually good information. Like you need to eat more fiber. What about fluid?
Speaker B [00:13:51]:
They did say with fiber you have to increase your water intake. Because if you, the way that it was put to me, which I already, I already knew this from past experiences. If you take a bowl of all brand cereal and you add water to it or milk and you leave it sit there, it congeals into cement because you’re not adding any more fluid to it. So the doctor would say to me, think of that as your bowels, because if you don’t increase your water intake, this is what happens inside your bowels and it doesn’t move.
Speaker A [00:14:23]:
So that’s actually great advice though, Tammy.
Speaker B [00:14:26]:
It was great advice. However, they told me too much fiber. So we want you to drink wheat bran in the morning, then we want you to drink a liter of water after that and then we want you to eat nothing but fiber. Nothing but fiber. Which just was the reverse of what I needed because I went from one extreme to the next.
Speaker A [00:14:49]:
You went from very low fiber to.
Speaker B [00:14:52]:
Very high fiber and no protein, no recommendations of protein or anything.
Speaker A [00:14:57]:
So I was getting sad because that is just as, especially as a quadriplegic, like we need you to hold on to as much muscle mass as possible. So if you’re not eating adequate protein, you’re not going to maintain your muscle mass.
Speaker B [00:15:11]:
And I really needed my energy because the job that I was doing at the time was a lot of back and forth motion and I would be going, I work for at the time and I’m on long term disability from a major police service here in Canada. And I would be going all over the building if I wasn’t at my desk and I would need that energy to push and to get through my day. So I was lacking energy and I, I came very close to becoming septic. I was begging my, my physiatrist at the time to send me to some, somebody somewhere. Finally My family and myself found a clinic in Toronto which is a world renowned clinic for so called bum health. So they really, really helped. And I had to have a couple of procedures done that you do not get any kind of freezing. So.
Speaker B [00:16:06]:
And because I have complete sensation, I was cauterized a couple of times and then you have to sit on that. So I remember the doctor telling my mom was allowed to come in the room with me. And I remember the doctor saying to me, what you’ve just been through would put a grown man down. And I’ve seen plenty of grown men fall off the table because of this procedure. So. And then I, you know, would take a couple of days off work and just go right back to work, and I was still suffering. So your, your diet when you’re a quad or a paraplegic is extremely important, along with water intake. And you’ve, you’ve got to, you just have to maintain healthy eating if possible.
Speaker B [00:16:45]:
But processed foods are so simple and so easy for us.
Speaker A [00:16:49]:
Easy.
Speaker B [00:16:49]:
You know, it’s, I think it’s easier for the, for the SCI community as it is, or the paralysis community as it is for anybody else. But it is so bad for us. So, so bad.
Speaker A [00:17:01]:
Well, it’s lacking fiber and they’re usually really high in calories and fat. And so, you know, obviously that’s going to result in poor health. Right. It’s going to result in weight gain and you’re not eating enough fiber and you’re not going to have good bowel. So, Tammy, I just gotta pause and say, wow, that’s a lot of trauma.
Speaker B [00:17:21]:
It was.
Speaker A [00:17:21]:
We laugh when we, you know, just to. Because that’s a coping mechanism. But, you know, we talk about this in the program all the time. Like there is all this like unspoken trauma related to bowel health.
Speaker B [00:17:35]:
Oh, yeah.
Speaker A [00:17:36]:
Yes. And I think it’s incredibly. First of all, thank you so much for sharing because this is not easy, right? Like we’re. No.
Speaker B [00:17:45]:
And I’ve never spoken, I’ve never spoken about it.
Speaker A [00:17:47]:
So you are being so vulnerable for our community and I appreciate you so much because someone out there is going to hear this and say, like, wow, you know, I’m going through something similar. And like, she’s okay. And you are uplifting them right in that there is a solution. So this bowel related trauma, what impact do you think that has had just like on your life? Because I know that was a long time ago, right? That was several years ago that you did that.
Speaker B [00:18:14]:
Yeah, I think it was 2004, 2005. I think.
Speaker A [00:18:17]:
All right, so like 15 years ago. But I’ll tell you, these things don’t just leave.
Speaker B [00:18:26]:
I remember.
Speaker A [00:18:28]:
Yeah. Just because it’s over doesn’t mean that mentally you are over it. Right. And a much, you know, lesser trauma. But I will tell you, two years ago my husband missed Christmas. It was my daughter’s first Christmas. And he missed Christmas because on Christmas Eve he really overdid it with eating and drinking and all that kind of stuff. And he had to go to the bathroom on Christmas morning and that was it.
Speaker A [00:18:56]:
Like we didn’t see him. And so Christmas Eve, I will say we hosted at our house and it was lovely. Christmas Day, we go to my mother in laws and I had to get my kids ready on Christmas day and go to my in laws by myself. And everybody’s like, where’s Ray? And I was like, he’s tired, you know, like, what am I going to say? Sorry, he’s in the bathroom. Like it happens. Right? But there’s just so much. And I’m in no way am I comparing this to your experience. But we all, you know, have these experiences, whether it’s like pain related or it’s something embarrassing or it’s something like you missed an event or you know, you were in the group.
Speaker A [00:19:40]:
Like people are planning their day around their bowel program, right? And people are desperate to shorten the amount of time that it takes because like you said you Woke up at 4am Right? Because you’re a quad and you get ready on your own. And you know, I joke about this too with Ray is like, he would rather spend 45 minutes putting on his socks than have me put on his socks. You guys should hang out. You be besties. I swear, so stupidly, stubbornly.
Speaker B [00:20:10]:
And you know what though?
Speaker A [00:20:11]:
But I really admire it because that says a lot about you, right? That says you want to do it. And I will say my husband and you as a quad, you guys do stuff that I think a lot of people assume that quads can’t do. Like he holds things and he uses regular utensils and yeah, he drops them sometimes, but he uses regular glasses and a lot of things that I think people are like, he’s a quad, how does he do that? And I’m like, I simply do not have an answer for this. He does not have some sort of special hand function. It’s literally pure stubbornness. And I actually asked him this question of like, so there are quads at your level who don’t hold a toothbrush. How do you hold a Toothbrush. And he’s like, I just do it.
Speaker A [00:21:01]:
And it really reminds me of you because it’s like you don’t have any special function. You just do it. And there is no explanation. Right. Sometimes I think it’s literally sheer want and like determination that you sort of just figure it out. And it’s really strange, Tammy. I’ve been ever since I have a kind of, you know, done paralysis, nutrition, and people ask me these things. Like, I started to kind of look a little bit like, how are you doing that? How are you holding that glass? How are you doing these things? And it’s just sort of like, I don’t know, like, it’s like trickery.
Speaker A [00:21:35]:
It’s magic. I don’t know how.
Speaker B [00:21:37]:
So quadrics.
Speaker A [00:21:39]:
Yes, quadric. I swear, it’s just like. I don’t know. You remind me a lot of him. So this bowel related trauma, right, in our situation, it does affect, you know, the family, right?
Speaker B [00:21:51]:
Yeah. It affects every aspect of your life.
Speaker A [00:21:54]:
Did you feel that it affected you mentally as well? I mean, obviously you had a big physical, you know, you had surgeries and things like that. What about mentally?
Speaker B [00:22:04]:
Mentally, it was very hard. Yeah, it was really hard to cope with. Because I think when you speak of trauma, bowel trauma, you’re also speaking of the aspect of when these things happen. Like in, in my case, you’re having to beg for help because you can’t get the help. And then when you finally find the help, you go to the. The bum doctor. And my parents went with me. And I’m so fortunate to have the parents that I have.
Speaker B [00:22:33]:
I mean, yes, my mom and my stepfather are just like my be all and all. They’re my rocks. My mom is my pillar of strength. So my stepdad, if it wasn’t for my stepfather, I would not have been able to see this doctor. Because they’re not equipped to have people with disabilities in their offices. It’s not accessible. So my stepdad would have to pick me up.
Speaker A [00:22:55]:
Oh, yeah.
Speaker B [00:22:56]:
And put me on the table. And then he would leave. And then, you know, you get examined and all that kind of. So you have the trauma of that because nobody. You’re a person with a disability, right. And you’re showing your butt. Excuse me for being so blunt. No, but you’re showing your butt to somebody that you’ve never met before.
Speaker A [00:23:13]:
And you’re happy to do it.
Speaker B [00:23:14]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:23:14]:
You’re happy to do it. Like, please help me.
Speaker B [00:23:17]:
Yeah, help me, help me, help me. Right. And now it’s gotten to the point where you know, like you’re begging this doctor for help and the only reason why they agreed to see you was because you told them that you have a family member that could help you put, put you on the table. Otherwise I wouldn’t have gotten the help. So those of us who don’t have that, what do you do? Right. So then you’ve got the trauma of, you know, being constipated. Then you’ve got the trauma of going to see somebody that doesn’t know what really what they’re talking about when it comes to a neurogenic bowel. And then you find somebody that’s like, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker B [00:23:53]:
And you’re so elated at the fact that you’ve, you know, you’ve seen this doctor and then you have to have this so called procedure done, which is just horrific. It’s not just the trauma of it happening. You’re dealing with the trauma of everything that’s involved in the healing process and getting help for it for such a simple thing that an able bodied person.
Speaker A [00:24:17]:
And I was hoping the table. Right. Yeah, we have the same, we have the same discussion, I think in another group, I don’t think it was your group, about going to the OB GYN and about how it is impossible to find an OB GYN who has a table that you can, that is remotely accessible. I don’t even, I don’t know if it exists. I don’t know what people do. And it’s really sad because I have so many women who have not been to the OB in years. It’s like, but you need to get a pap smear. But you need to do with this, you need to do that.
Speaker A [00:24:51]:
You know, none of this stuff is accessible. Yeah, it’s just like layers and layers of trauma. Anyone who has ever missed an event, anyone who has ever had to tell a loved one or like I don’t really even know what people do when it comes to like getting to work on time.
Speaker B [00:25:12]:
Like what?
Speaker A [00:25:13]:
Yeah, what in the world? You know? So that’s why, even though I don’t.
Speaker B [00:25:18]:
You learn to lie when you have to say to work, I can’t come in today and they ask you why. I’m sorry, I’m just not feeling well today.
Speaker A [00:25:25]:
Yeah, right, exactly. Like what are you supposed to do? And I think I don’t love talking about poop, but if you’re going to be a dietitian that helps people with paralysis, like I came into this thinking, oh yeah, I’m going to do weight loss because, like, 70% of people with a spinal cord injury in the United States are overweight or obese. So, yes, this makes sense. But then everybody wanted to talk about poop, so I was like, okay, y’all are constipated. I get it. My husband was constipated, too. He ate one meal a day. He drank Diet Cokes.
Speaker A [00:25:57]:
Like, there was nothing gut healthy about his diet at all. So it’s interesting, Tammy, that you. You knew about healthy eating, like, general healthy eating.
Speaker B [00:26:08]:
Yes.
Speaker A [00:26:08]:
But you still had.
Speaker B [00:26:10]:
I didn’t know enough.
Speaker A [00:26:12]:
You didn’t know enough.
Speaker B [00:26:13]:
I didn’t know enough. And for. For instance, I thought quinoa was extremely healthy. It is, but I thought it was more protein. Ah. But it’s not.
Speaker A [00:26:24]:
So quinoa contains protein.
Speaker B [00:26:26]:
Correct.
Speaker A [00:26:27]:
And it contains a very good amount of fiber. But quinoa is mostly carbs. Yeah.
Speaker B [00:26:32]:
Didn’t know that.
Speaker A [00:26:33]:
Yes. And I think that. Why did you think it was protein? It’s not wrong. You’re correct. It has some protein, but it’s mostly a carb. It’s because I think nutrition is confusing and because there is just so much out there. Right. So every week there’s like a new super food, you know?
Speaker B [00:26:53]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:26:54]:
I don’t know what it is now, but a few years ago, the acai bowls were going to cure. Yeah. All the goji berries.
Speaker B [00:27:02]:
Yes. You know, apple cider vinegar is going to cure everything.
Speaker A [00:27:07]:
Yes. And so it’s hard to keep up. It really is. And so I really. I really think it’s interesting that even someone who knows about healthy eating might not know healthy eating for paralysis. Right. Because no one really. I’ll tell you, it doesn’t really.
Speaker A [00:27:24]:
It’s not something that was taught. Right. It’s really. To me at least it was not taught to me. In graduate school, they don’t spend one day talking about neurogenic bowel. They do not teach. I mean, even at the master’s level, they do not teach you anything about people with disabilities or nothing. And it’s shameful.
Speaker A [00:27:42]:
It really is. And so when I think. I think that when we have a personal interest, like in my case, it was my husband, you learn. Right. You, like, you just figure it out. And so now there is this framework. You know, I call it the poop trifecta. It is the fiber, it is the fluid, and it is the stress.
Speaker A [00:28:01]:
And these are the three things that we need. Yeah. That is the trifecta. And so those are the three things that we need to focus on. And what I want to Educate people about when it comes to bowels. So now, since having finished the program, what do you. How are your bowels now? You were going every other day.
Speaker B [00:28:24]:
I am going. It fluctuates. So I go every other day or I go every day.
Speaker A [00:28:30]:
Okay.
Speaker B [00:28:30]:
And the one thing that has been consistent is that I’m not spending as much time going.
Speaker A [00:28:37]:
So it takes you.
Speaker B [00:28:37]:
That has been. Yeah. How long.
Speaker A [00:28:40]:
How long did it used to take you, Tammy?
Speaker B [00:28:42]:
Anywhere from a half an hour to an hour, but mostly closer to an hour.
Speaker A [00:28:47]:
Okay.
Speaker B [00:28:48]:
Now it’s 30 minutes, 20 minutes.
Speaker A [00:28:51]:
Okay.
Speaker B [00:28:52]:
Which is great.
Speaker A [00:28:53]:
I’ll take it.
Speaker B [00:28:54]:
I’ll take it. Yep.
Speaker A [00:28:55]:
Yeah. And any other. So, yeah, taking almost an hour is not that bad, you know, compared to a lot of people, because, you know, I have people on the program. I have a guy who said it takes him four hours to go poop. Okay.
Speaker B [00:29:10]:
This is horrible.
Speaker A [00:29:11]:
Yeah. And we’re. We’re uncovering, like, so many, you know, two decades of trauma. Right.
Speaker B [00:29:18]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:29:18]:
So what success looks like for him and what it looks for somebody else is going to be different because that’s such an extreme case. Right. So if I can get him down to two hours, I’ll be happy. I mean, not really, but it’ll be. I’ll be happy when he’s down to one hour or less. And that’s how I feel about all my clients. But for people like you who are like, you know, it takes about an hour, you can’t. You should not compare yourself or think that that’s great because you can do better.
Speaker A [00:29:44]:
Right. So now sometimes it’s taking you 20 to 30, and that probably just feels good. Right. To spend less time in there.
Speaker B [00:29:51]:
It does. And I. And I do have to be careful because. Because of the procedures that I’ve recently had, I have to be careful that I don’t re. Injure myself. And that could happen by going every day. So I have to be careful with my diet in order to see how often I’m going to go. So I now know, unfortunately, through experience, when I’m at risk, so I have to adjust my diet.
Speaker A [00:30:17]:
Okay.
Speaker B [00:30:18]:
But the program has been consistent for me, where I’m not worrying about it as much because I’m paying attention to my macros, and I didn’t even know what a macro was when I first started the program.
Speaker A [00:30:31]:
Yeah. I mean, something boring people don’t. And I think when people lose weight, they’re just thinking about calories. But really, we need to get into macros. We need to know how many grams of Protein, how much carbs, how much fat, and also water and fiber and stress and all of that. And so now that you’re down to 20 to 30 minutes, what does that feel like mentally?
Speaker B [00:30:52]:
Really good. It’s funny because you think of it as an achievement.
Speaker A [00:30:57]:
Yes, it is.
Speaker B [00:30:59]:
It is a cocktail. And it’s very free. Yes. And it’s very freeing. I have. I have to get up in the morning and walk my dog because my dog’s got to go to the bathroom, too. And I live in an apartment, so it’s not as easy as just letting her out the door. I physically have to get up and get dressed, and I physically have to take her out.
Speaker B [00:31:20]:
So do I do that before I go out with her or do I wait? Which normally I take her out very first thing in the morning and then I come home and I have breakfast. And I have breakfast now where it’s mostly every day. It’s a decent breakfast. It’s not toasted peanut butter coffee. I love my rye toast with peanut butter on it. But it’s not that.
Speaker A [00:31:44]:
And you can have it. It’s fine snack. But for a breakfast in advance of bowel program, not quite the best choice. So I’m so glad that you were able to cut down the bathroom time. And I think that so much of this. Yes, it’s good to spend less time. Yes, it’s good to go more frequently. Yes, it’s good to have a regular bowel program, but mentally.
Speaker A [00:32:11]:
Right. You use that word. You said it was freeing.
Speaker B [00:32:14]:
Freeing, yeah. And how funny to use a word like freeing when you’re talking about going to the bathroom. I mean, yes, it’s appropriate, but also it’s, you know, it’s. I just don’t know what to say about it.
Speaker A [00:32:27]:
It goes together, it works. It really flows. I think it works. So. So Tammy, you. You had this kind of 38 years of neurogenic bowel. If there was anything that you could tell someone who has neurogenic bowel, right. Someone who has spinal cord injury, and they’re.
Speaker B [00:32:47]:
This is tough.
Speaker A [00:32:49]:
Yeah, no, it’s not going to be tough because you know the answer, right? You. Whatever it is, right. You have that knowledge.
Speaker B [00:32:55]:
Now.
Speaker A [00:32:55]:
If you could speak to someone who was having a hard time with their bowels that it felt frustrating, that they were just confused and feeling frustrated with their bowels, what would be your biggest piece of advice?
Speaker B [00:33:10]:
Diet is key. And I don’t mean diet as in the word diet. I mean the way that you eat has the potential to free you, to free your life up to do other things you don’t normally think of. Healthy eating would. Would free your life. But it does. It does. And your program is exactly the key to the.
Speaker B [00:33:35]:
I keep saying the SCI community, but. Paralysis community.
Speaker A [00:33:38]:
No. Yeah, I mean, it’s mostly. I mean, I know it’s. It’s for your perspective, is you feel like you are part of the SCI community. So do I, Tammy. My husband is quadriplegic, but I serve people who have spina bifida, who have transverse myelitis, who have spread spinal stenosis, you know, and I will say it’s probably like 90% spinal cord injury. I find the word paralysis to be more inclusive, so that’s why I use that. But don’t feel bad.
Speaker A [00:34:04]:
You’re you. That’s your SCI community. You can say that totally fine.
Speaker B [00:34:08]:
Who wants to be on drugs all the time? Like, you know, like, pop a pill to go to the bathroom. You know, drink something to make you go to the bathroom. It’s not. Normal is not the correct word, but it’s. Why take something artificial when you can have a better result with something that’s healthy and natural?
Speaker A [00:34:27]:
I mean, amen. However, I will say this. If that stuff worked, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. Like, if people told me, I take Miralax every day. I poop every day. I don’t have any bloating. I feel great. I’m not.
Speaker A [00:34:42]:
I have nothing to say. But people tell me the opposite. People tell me, like I told you, I have a client who said it takes him four to five hours. Literally takes him four to five hours to poop. He’s been paraplegic for 20 years. He’s been drinking Miralax every single day for 20 years, and guess what? It takes him four to five hours to Poop. Okay? He quit that Miralax cold turkey and saw absolutely no difference. And he said yes.
Speaker A [00:35:12]:
Well, now, meaning he didn’t. It didn’t get worse. It didn’t get worse is what I mean. Now he’s down. He’s saying it’s taking still about two hours. But when he first started the program, he wasn’t eating right at all. He was eating one meal a day, wasn’t eating enough fiber, wasn’t drinking enough water. But this is what I’m talking about.
Speaker A [00:35:28]:
Someone who just started and has 20 years of daily Miralax, right? There is a trauma that he experienced from that, right? And then there was another layer that when he quit it and noticed that it didn’t get worse, he was Almost, like, frustrated about that. And I said, wait, wait, wait, wait. This is good. It’s not worse. And he’s like, right. But I drank it for 20 years, and it didn’t. It didn’t do anything. And now I’m not taking it.
Speaker A [00:35:59]:
And I started to, you know, like, he’s eating more fruit, he’s eating more whole grains. He’s drinking more water. We’re not there yet. But he almost felt disappointed, I think. I don’t want to put words in his mouth, but it seemed like he was a little bit disappointed that the Miralax wasn’t doing anything because he bought it and drank it every single day for 20 years. And then to cut it cold turkey, and it didn’t do anything. There is just so many layers of emotional baggage.
Speaker B [00:36:30]:
Yeah. But it also takes other people longer to acclimatize to something than it. Than other people. For me, I was lucky enough.
Speaker A [00:36:39]:
20 years of daily.
Speaker B [00:36:41]:
In a day.
Speaker A [00:36:42]:
In a day, or even in two weeks or three weeks, you know?
Speaker B [00:36:45]:
Yeah. Like, I’m not saying when I went off everything that it worked right away. Absolutely not.
Speaker A [00:36:51]:
No.
Speaker B [00:36:52]:
But also, you’ve got the fear, and I get this. So much of accidents happening.
Speaker A [00:36:58]:
Oh, yeah.
Speaker B [00:36:59]:
And it’s. It’s absolutely. Excuse the expression, but it’s crippling. Like, emotionally and physically. It’s crippling. Like, you go to work and it’s. You hear a rumble in your stomach or, you know, your. Your stomach’s getting a little bigger or whatever.
Speaker B [00:37:12]:
Oh, no. Is this. Does this mean I got to leave? Or, you know, it’s. Oh, God. You know, and it doesn’t happen overnight, but everybody’s different, so give yourself a chance. You know, if it doesn’t work within the first month, that doesn’t mean it’s not going to work in the next month.
Speaker A [00:37:28]:
Meaning dietary changes.
Speaker B [00:37:30]:
Yeah. And it has to be. You can’t. From experience, and this is only my experience, you can’t start it and then stop it because you get progress. You’re seeing progress. And then for me, say, for instance, because my. My chest and my back, I had to wean off of it a little bit, like, step back from it, because I couldn’t. I couldn’t devote the time or the energy, so I had to go back to it after I felt better.
Speaker B [00:37:57]:
And as soon as I went back to it, it took a little bit longer, but I got there. But I.
Speaker A [00:38:02]:
Now you know what to do.
Speaker B [00:38:03]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:38:04]:
Because, you know, now I know what to do. And this is actually very.
Speaker B [00:38:07]:
And you’re Constantly in my head, add a vegetable, add a vegetable, eat a piece of fruit. So you’re always.
Speaker A [00:38:15]:
Get your fiber. And I will also say that I think this is the same with anything. Same with weight loss, same with, like, organizing. Same with, like, work, is that sometimes things happen that take you off track, Right?
Speaker B [00:38:30]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:38:30]:
And then it can be hard to get back to it, but if you know what to do, then you just kind of get back into it slowly. Not that it’s easy, but I think with bowels, people just feel so confused and disheartened that they don’t know what to do. So your version of what is healthy eating several years ago is different than it is now. People who are reading things on social media, they’re reading about keto, and they’re reading about, I don’t know, intermittent fasting, and they’re reading about all these different things, they might think, hey, that’s good. That’s healthy. Right. Because that’s what they’re consuming. But for paralysis, none of this stuff is meant for paralysis.
Speaker A [00:39:09]:
And that’s really my big message, is that you need to eat right for paralysis, not just eat healthy.
Speaker B [00:39:15]:
Right.
Speaker A [00:39:16]:
Eat healthy is so vague. Not that it’s wrong. Not that it’s wrong. What you were doing before, it wasn’t wrong. It just was not dialed in.
Speaker B [00:39:25]:
Yeah. And I wasn’t as informed then as I am now, and I think that that makes a big difference as well. And still to this day, you know, I still go to the rehab hospital for. For checkups and stuff, and they still, as an outpatient, they don’t ask you anything about your diet? Absolutely nothing. They don’t ask about your fiber intake, your protein, your water, anything like that? They just want to know.
Speaker A [00:39:50]:
They ask you, Tammy, I’m curious.
Speaker B [00:39:53]:
Are your bowels working? How often are you going? What’s the consistency? That is it. That is all we get asked about, our bowels, which is good.
Speaker A [00:40:01]:
They asked that. I feel like nobody asked my husband that when he goes, okay, your doctor is probably better.
Speaker B [00:40:08]:
No, I don’t know. I wouldn’t. Well, no, I would. I can’t. I can’t say that. I live in Canada. You live in the United States. And our healthcare system, albeit the majority of it is free.
Speaker B [00:40:21]:
We still have to fight tooth and nail for, you know, good healthcare. And thank goodness we have the rehab hospital that we have, which is the only one that we have of this caliber in Ontario. I’m not sure about the rest of Canada. I know there’s a really good one in British Columbia. But you know, it’s, it’s not the same anymore. It’s, you’re sent home now in, in your halo. You’re sent home now in your back brace. Six weeks, you’re in and out when.
Speaker B [00:40:49]:
I’m not sure about your husband, but when I first got injured, we were taught how to live a life in a wheelchair without equipment because the world was not very accessible. So did that also drive us to be a little bit more independent and stubborn? Absolutely.
Speaker A [00:41:06]:
That’s really interesting because.
Speaker B [00:41:08]:
But we are also now paying for that sense of independence with our bodies being battered and bruised and beaten up. And my old physiatrist, who I love dearly, Dr. Yap. Oh, I wish she was still my doctor. She would say your body has been through what she considers Olympic Mode training for 20 plus years now. Your body is telling you that it’s tired of training. It’s time to slow down and listen to your body. Which is really hard to do when you’ve been so stubbornly, stupidly independent.
Speaker B [00:41:43]:
But she was a big, big factor also in her clients health and well being in regards to food. Your food intake, not so much with the physiatrist that I have now, but the mama, my old psychiatrist, oh my lord, she was, she was incredible. She was an advocate for every aspect of her client’s life. And she would ask you like a.
Speaker A [00:42:09]:
Whole life kind of approach and she.
Speaker B [00:42:12]:
Soaked it up like a sponge. She asked you about when I had the fissures and fistulas, what did you do to relieve the pain? She had never heard of this thing called Anorex, which is, and excuse me for being blunt, it looks like a very long mushroom with. It’s just a cold probe insert that you insert. You keep it in your freezer and you bring it out when you’re in a lot of pain or if you have bleeding or hemorrhoids, you insert it and it relieves the pain, but also helps with healing the cuts. She had never heard of it. And after our conversation about bowel health and stuff, she looked into it and she started prescribing it to her patients.
Speaker A [00:42:57]:
So she learned something from you.
Speaker B [00:42:59]:
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A [00:43:00]:
So that’s great. And I will say this like, I do have a frustration with some of the advice that doctors give because it’s not very, you know, it’s usually just medication, you know, for bowels. But there are some really good doctors out there. Right. We just need to you know that their area of expertise is medication. A dietitian’s area of expertise is nutrition. And, you know, it’s up to you to figure out what works for you.
Speaker B [00:43:33]:
Yeah. You are your biggest advocate, so you gotta fight for yourself.
Speaker A [00:43:37]:
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker B [00:43:39]:
The doctors aren’t the ones that are living the life of paralysis. You are. So sometimes you need to educate your doctor as well. So some of them don’t take lightly to it, but some do listen.
Speaker A [00:43:50]:
So it’s how they learn, right? It’s how they learn.
Speaker B [00:43:53]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:43:53]:
Tammy, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us today and being so open and vulnerable to talk about these topics that really I, you know, I’m here to shine a light on these issues, this bowel health, these, these levels of trauma. You know, that people are walking around with a lot of feelings, you know, about their bowels. And I think you really have validated a lot of those feelings for people. Anyone who’s listening today who felt like, I’m alone, nobody understands me, you know, maybe doesn’t have friends or peers that have spinal cord injury, I hope you know that you are not alone. Right. And that you’re not. We. Yes, yes.
Speaker A [00:44:33]:
This is so common and we just, we don’t talk about it enough. So thank you so much, Tammy.
Speaker B [00:44:39]:
And it’s not a diet. It’s not a diet. It’s nutrition. And thank you for what you do.
Speaker A [00:44:45]:
I appreciate.
Speaker B [00:44:46]:
For the paralysis.
Speaker A [00:44:47]:
I appreciate you, Tammy. Thank you so much. That’s our episode for today. Thanks for listening. I hope you enjoyed it and that you learned something new. Remember, if you want to lose weight with paralysis, improve your bowel health and feel your best you can. It’s possible. You just have to change your eating habits.
Speaker A [00:45:04]:
If you need inspiration on how to get started, check out the paralysis Nutrition Cookbook 101 recipes to help you lose weight and improve bowel health. The cookbook comes with a bonus 30 day meal plan and is the perfect way to start eating healthier. You can find it online@paralysisnutrition.com cookbook. I’ll talk to you again soon.
